Jefferson saw America as sovereign independent states, only unified for defensive foreign policy. But today both left and right recognize the costs of empire are too high. And we are really too big to govern. Splitting into more natural bio-regions may seem nuts but the USSR splitting up was unthinkable and it happened. What happened to their nuclear weapons?On this show Ryan McMaken senior editor at the libertarian Mises Institute talks about defensive realism. New sub-regions are not about to threaten each other with nukes in their territory. Throughout the world, many small states have nukes but have not used them. Defensive collective security can work. Give a listen.

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